It failed now we are in to 2nd rebuild? 3rd rebuild?
Its been a long decade
glimitzu
That article is an interesting as the Priority patch.
« The Red Wings don’t draft well… in fact, they are atrocious. » then used their summary section to try and explain Detroit bad because they haven’t gotten a game breaker drafting in the later rounds where only 12-20% (depending who you ask) even make it to the NHL.
scubastevie
Our Drafting isn’t « terrible ». I think our pro scouting is worse.
We have missed on quite a few picks but still yzerman hit on : Seider, Soda(even if he isn’t here), Raymond, Edvinsson, Kasper, ASP, Finnie, MBN, Mazur, and AlJo, Danielson.
11/60 isn’t terrible IMO.
Sebrango, Chase Bradley both at least touched the NHL.
Our issue is no « stars » and no pro scouting.
otterpusrexII
We had a rebuild?
LostWright
So blame the draft lottery for them not getting the high picks they « earned » by being terrible and not lucky. Unlike montreal and Anaheim. Got it.
Mental_Antelope_2774
That’s just wrong. He says you’d have to go back to Hronek to see anyone outside the 1st round that the red wings drafted to establish as an NHL player. Really? Soda? Finnie? Albert johansson ? What is this guy smoking tho
AnteaterBudget6598
>They should have accumulated more top 5 picks to draft more top talents.
Yzerman needed to resist the urge to sign free agents and to climb in the standings. By doing so, he might have shortened the rebuild process and/or obtained lower draft picks in the process.
So this guys recommendation was to suck more in hopes that we’d get lucky enough to stay at or move up in draft order. Braindead analysis.
Lamprayisme
Outside of the 1st round there haven’t been many hits unfortunately, and even some of those 1st rounders are starting to look a little shaky (the finger is hovering over the panic button with Danielson/Kasper ever being a long term solution at 2C).
I think the pro scouting deserves a lot of the flack for how things have gone, but amateur scouting isn’t innocent in this either.
Look around the league and you see teams that have 2nd, 3rd rounders, sometimes later, playing useful minutes, not being superstars or scoring 40 goals (Jackson Lacombe and Pavel Dorofeyev notwithstanding), but being useful contributors on playoff teams.
Maybe it’s an amateur scouting issue, maybe it’s a player development issue. When you can’t draft or develop those useful pieces, you have to fill those gaps in free agency, which leads to a knock on effect with poor pro scouting.
Electrical_Long5850
For the last 7yrs
brendodezie
I agree with this take. This wings failure of a rebuild is because we tried to exit the rebuild too early. A top 3 pick in the bedard draft would have been a cornerstone C. The year before in the slavkofsky draft it could have been Cooley, wright or gauthier. I get that the rebuild had been happening for a while but the first 3 years of missing the playoffs under holland netted us nothing. The farm was bare. It felt like we hit on seider and Raymond and assumed that someone else would pop or that getting more top of the lineup players would work itself. Now we are 4 years past signing Copp chiarot Perron when it seemed like yzerman thought the team was ready to start trying to improve and stop trying to finish with the best pick possible.
tibbles1
I blame culture and systems more than scouting.
It used to be, players would come here and excel. Mikael Samuelson was a nobody who couldn’t stay in the league and then he came here and became a 20 goal scorer. Danny Cleary comes here and scores 20 goals. On the other side, Martin Lapointe leaves for money and never repeats his success here. It was a team wide thing: you come here, and you excel.
Now it’s the opposite. Guys leave (Mantha, Ghost, Walman) and become better. Soda had 10 points in 20 games with the Pens. That’s almost as many points as he had in the last two seasons with the wings.
I think the problem is more basic than we have shitty pro scouting. The kind of hockey we play isn’t allowing our guys to succeed.
bearded_turtle710
The amount of cope in this sub is unreal lol my prediction is that red wings brass will do whatever it takes to get this team in the playoffs in the next 2 years to avoid being the laughing stock. The team will barely make it and get smacked then miss the playoffs the next 2 seasons then they fire Yzerman clean house and restart the rebuild. If it were me id pull the plug now and restart with someone new and more importantly brand new scouting staff and remodel this thing to the studs. Only safe people would be raymond, seider and either augustin or cossa everyone else will be too old by the time the next rebuild is ready to compete. Outside of those 3 guys i just named trade em all for picks and don’t artificially prop up the roster with vets for at least 5 years until you got some solid top 5 picks to build around.
DTown_Hero
This is depressing….
Mental_Drive3369
Which one of you wrote this? It reads like a combo of comments from any of the daily threads.
ObiwanSchrute
Yes
Delicious_Invite_850
Yes
jfstompers
You cant just draft your way to being a contender unless you get very lucky and even then you have to be able to make additions that maximize those assets. Thinking they could just draft and it would work out is just not realistic. They’ve done a bad job building around the picks and that’s what’s sunk us.
Sativa_Highzerman
Yes
randomperson32145
Wait. Ypu giys forger deteoit lost 1c and 2c, ans talbot bwing a hole february and march? Deteoit was 1st or 3rd ans then injury, amd then fell like a rock, before that aure playoff. There are very few teams thar can lose 1c and 2c at the same time for that long and still make the playoffs, i cant think of a single on, maybe 1 or 3 would have, but thata it.
How is it the staffs fault, or players even.
All you guys complaining, did you even watch this season!?
bunglesnacks
So we should tear it down and start over? Trade everyone for as many picks as we can get?
Everybody knows this rebuild is flawed. My grandma probably knows it and she’s 6 feet under. The question is what do you do about it?
Hey buddy you’re missing a windshield. Man good thing you let me know I wondered why my face was covered in bugs that answers everything!
According-Delay-158
Finally, somebody else points out how bad we’ve been in drafting. I’m not sure why there’s this notion that Eiserman has had all these great drafts outside of cider and Raymond. We don’t have anything to show For above average players. I guess Simon Edmondson would be above average, but that would be it. The thing is the average fan would have to do a really deep dive like this article did and truly look at all of the drafts and how many players have been picked and just came and went or never made it to the NHL.
Ok-Highlight-5880
I think a lot of the flak needs to be pointed directly at the fan base, Steve needed to tank longer for better players, they got seider an Raymond and the fan base cried cause they sucked for too long and yzerman started to fill out the roster with better players leaving them with better picks and ending up with Edvinsson, who is still a pretty good player, and Kasper and danielson, instead of tanking for top 5 players. Look at what the other teams in the same breath, Anaheim got 2 -2nd and a 3rd overall, San Jose, montreal, Buffalo, all got more than 3 top 5 picks a piece leading to a better core
marcaractac
Yes, because they didn’t tank long enough. Picking in the top 5 one time won’t get you very far unfortunately.
Everlovin
Respectfully from a Flyer fan who likes the wings and wants them to do well, you guys needed to be bad with your young players for a couple seasons. Instead management overpaid for aging mediocre talent, keeping you in the abyss of to good to draft high and to bad to make the playoffs. You needed two more top 5 drafts, now you’re stuck with an old roster that gradually will get worse.
darkrhin0
It’s just the Detroit way.
The_ManWithNoName
Kasper, Danielson don’t look like high impact players for being drafted top ten. I dont feel super great about Cossa. Looks like Wallstead was the better player. MBN hasn’t lite the world on fire either. We fucked up too much. The Danielson pick will come back to hurt. Benson, Davorsky or The guy the Rangers picked will be better. Getting 3-4th line players when drafting top 15 is a fail in my book
29 Comments
Yes.
Aren’t we all a little fundamentally flawed?
Is that Jonathan Ericsson and Trevor Daley?
It failed now we are in to 2nd rebuild? 3rd rebuild?
Its been a long decade
That article is an interesting as the Priority patch.
« The Red Wings don’t draft well… in fact, they are atrocious. » then used their summary section to try and explain Detroit bad because they haven’t gotten a game breaker drafting in the later rounds where only 12-20% (depending who you ask) even make it to the NHL.
Our Drafting isn’t « terrible ». I think our pro scouting is worse.
We have missed on quite a few picks but still yzerman hit on : Seider, Soda(even if he isn’t here), Raymond, Edvinsson, Kasper, ASP, Finnie, MBN, Mazur, and AlJo, Danielson.
11/60 isn’t terrible IMO.
Sebrango, Chase Bradley both at least touched the NHL.
Our issue is no « stars » and no pro scouting.
We had a rebuild?
So blame the draft lottery for them not getting the high picks they « earned » by being terrible and not lucky. Unlike montreal and Anaheim. Got it.
That’s just wrong. He says you’d have to go back to Hronek to see anyone outside the 1st round that the red wings drafted to establish as an NHL player. Really? Soda? Finnie? Albert johansson ? What is this guy smoking tho
>They should have accumulated more top 5 picks to draft more top talents.
Yzerman needed to resist the urge to sign free agents and to climb in the standings. By doing so, he might have shortened the rebuild process and/or obtained lower draft picks in the process.
So this guys recommendation was to suck more in hopes that we’d get lucky enough to stay at or move up in draft order. Braindead analysis.
Outside of the 1st round there haven’t been many hits unfortunately, and even some of those 1st rounders are starting to look a little shaky (the finger is hovering over the panic button with Danielson/Kasper ever being a long term solution at 2C).
I think the pro scouting deserves a lot of the flack for how things have gone, but amateur scouting isn’t innocent in this either.
Look around the league and you see teams that have 2nd, 3rd rounders, sometimes later, playing useful minutes, not being superstars or scoring 40 goals (Jackson Lacombe and Pavel Dorofeyev notwithstanding), but being useful contributors on playoff teams.
Maybe it’s an amateur scouting issue, maybe it’s a player development issue. When you can’t draft or develop those useful pieces, you have to fill those gaps in free agency, which leads to a knock on effect with poor pro scouting.
For the last 7yrs
I agree with this take. This wings failure of a rebuild is because we tried to exit the rebuild too early. A top 3 pick in the bedard draft would have been a cornerstone C. The year before in the slavkofsky draft it could have been Cooley, wright or gauthier. I get that the rebuild had been happening for a while but the first 3 years of missing the playoffs under holland netted us nothing. The farm was bare. It felt like we hit on seider and Raymond and assumed that someone else would pop or that getting more top of the lineup players would work itself. Now we are 4 years past signing Copp chiarot Perron when it seemed like yzerman thought the team was ready to start trying to improve and stop trying to finish with the best pick possible.
I blame culture and systems more than scouting.
It used to be, players would come here and excel. Mikael Samuelson was a nobody who couldn’t stay in the league and then he came here and became a 20 goal scorer. Danny Cleary comes here and scores 20 goals. On the other side, Martin Lapointe leaves for money and never repeats his success here. It was a team wide thing: you come here, and you excel.
Now it’s the opposite. Guys leave (Mantha, Ghost, Walman) and become better. Soda had 10 points in 20 games with the Pens. That’s almost as many points as he had in the last two seasons with the wings.
I think the problem is more basic than we have shitty pro scouting. The kind of hockey we play isn’t allowing our guys to succeed.
The amount of cope in this sub is unreal lol my prediction is that red wings brass will do whatever it takes to get this team in the playoffs in the next 2 years to avoid being the laughing stock. The team will barely make it and get smacked then miss the playoffs the next 2 seasons then they fire Yzerman clean house and restart the rebuild. If it were me id pull the plug now and restart with someone new and more importantly brand new scouting staff and remodel this thing to the studs. Only safe people would be raymond, seider and either augustin or cossa everyone else will be too old by the time the next rebuild is ready to compete. Outside of those 3 guys i just named trade em all for picks and don’t artificially prop up the roster with vets for at least 5 years until you got some solid top 5 picks to build around.
This is depressing….
Which one of you wrote this? It reads like a combo of comments from any of the daily threads.
Yes
Yes
You cant just draft your way to being a contender unless you get very lucky and even then you have to be able to make additions that maximize those assets. Thinking they could just draft and it would work out is just not realistic. They’ve done a bad job building around the picks and that’s what’s sunk us.
Yes
Wait. Ypu giys forger deteoit lost 1c and 2c, ans talbot bwing a hole february and march? Deteoit was 1st or 3rd ans then injury, amd then fell like a rock, before that aure playoff. There are very few teams thar can lose 1c and 2c at the same time for that long and still make the playoffs, i cant think of a single on, maybe 1 or 3 would have, but thata it.
How is it the staffs fault, or players even.
All you guys complaining, did you even watch this season!?
So we should tear it down and start over? Trade everyone for as many picks as we can get?
Everybody knows this rebuild is flawed. My grandma probably knows it and she’s 6 feet under. The question is what do you do about it?
Hey buddy you’re missing a windshield. Man good thing you let me know I wondered why my face was covered in bugs that answers everything!
Finally, somebody else points out how bad we’ve been in drafting. I’m not sure why there’s this notion that Eiserman has had all these great drafts outside of cider and Raymond. We don’t have anything to show For above average players. I guess Simon Edmondson would be above average, but that would be it. The thing is the average fan would have to do a really deep dive like this article did and truly look at all of the drafts and how many players have been picked and just came and went or never made it to the NHL.
I think a lot of the flak needs to be pointed directly at the fan base, Steve needed to tank longer for better players, they got seider an Raymond and the fan base cried cause they sucked for too long and yzerman started to fill out the roster with better players leaving them with better picks and ending up with Edvinsson, who is still a pretty good player, and Kasper and danielson, instead of tanking for top 5 players. Look at what the other teams in the same breath, Anaheim got 2 -2nd and a 3rd overall, San Jose, montreal, Buffalo, all got more than 3 top 5 picks a piece leading to a better core
Yes, because they didn’t tank long enough. Picking in the top 5 one time won’t get you very far unfortunately.
Respectfully from a Flyer fan who likes the wings and wants them to do well, you guys needed to be bad with your young players for a couple seasons. Instead management overpaid for aging mediocre talent, keeping you in the abyss of to good to draft high and to bad to make the playoffs. You needed two more top 5 drafts, now you’re stuck with an old roster that gradually will get worse.
It’s just the Detroit way.
Kasper, Danielson don’t look like high impact players for being drafted top ten. I dont feel super great about Cossa. Looks like Wallstead was the better player. MBN hasn’t lite the world on fire either. We fucked up too much. The Danielson pick will come back to hurt. Benson, Davorsky or The guy the Rangers picked will be better. Getting 3-4th line players when drafting top 15 is a fail in my book